Public opinion on Germany's military expansion presents a mix of skepticism, historical concern, and approval. Many express doubts about the necessity and strategic soundness of increased military spending, referencing Germany's historical military actions and its reliance on U.S. defense. However, a robust segment supports the move as a key step towards European self-reliance and solidarity, especially in response to potential Russian threats. Highlighted is the importance of fair sharing of NATO commitments, with a call for all European nations to contribute adequately. Discussions reflect tension between military spending, historical sensitivities, and the need for a balanced defense strategy within NATO.

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They should all at least meet the 2% of GDP NATO requirement.  Only a few NATO nations meet that threshold, although I think some have increased spending since the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Jakebob70

That guy is a perfect example of why when Trump says the things he says about NATO people cheer. I don’t agree with leaving nato in or threatening them, but the expectation that another nation will fight on your behalf so you don’t have to is insane

Salty_Dog2917

These types of people make me roll my eyes. Germany is so below the 2% target it’s not even funny

Baring-My-Heart

What really worries me is a situation like what we're seeing right now with Ukraine. The US faltered with providing weapons and supplies to Ukraine due to its own internal politics, and there wasn't a single European country willing to pick up the slack. Even the minute amount of aid that they're giving Ukraine is all loans. Nothing they're giving is actual aid, just loans. Ukraine could have been lost completely if the US didn't pass this recent military funding bill.

I would think that the EU and European members of NATO would be more concerned about Russian aggression so close to home, but it doesn't seem like they are. It's very disillusioning seeing just how much the world relies on US military protection. Europe, in particular, seems likes to treat NATO as just completely free protection at the cost of Americans. Like they're just entitled to our tax dollars and our service-members' lives.

nerowasframed

Well he’s at least aware that Europe’s prosperity is in large part due to U.S. hegemony.

ArcticosSL

&gt; According to him why should Germany spend more. No country will attack it because there are so many US bases in Germany.

Man what an asshat. Does he realize that's because we actually spend enough on defense?

rawbface

Germany and other NATO countries should freeze Russian bank accounts as a condition of Russia leaving and rebuilding Ukraine.  

I’m no fan of Trump but he’s right that some NATO countries don’t contribute their fair share on defense spending.

3mta3jvq

Personally it leaves a bad taste for Americans. We're committed to NATO but hearing the expectations that the other countries shouldn't at least meet the contribution threshold because they expect America to defend them make for poor allies. We'll be there but we expect you to be on battlefield with us.

What_u_say

&gt;His reasoning was that Germany doesn't spend much on defense so it has room to spend on benefits for it's citizens. According to him why should Germany spend more. No country will attack it because there are so many US bases in Germany.

Herein lies the problem that (poorly thought out solutions aside) conservatives are right about... at least in broad strokes. 

A major part of the NATO agreement is in *defence budgeting*.  Let me be clear here, not NATO contributions, but *national defence* budgeting.  NATO's 28 members agreed to spending 2% of their GDP on defence. OF the 28, 5 meet the agreed upon obligations.[ 5 of 28](https://time.com/4680885/nato-defense-spending-budget-trump/)**!** (11 are on track, with a few putting the 2% figure into national law)

Imagine, if you will, a group of friends who agree to have a monthly dinner party. There are lots of rules and agreements on who hosts the party, how it rotates, how dishes are prepared, etc. one of the rules id that you put 2% of your funds into **your own food budget.** As long as you keep your pantry full ,we can make up the rest. Is it fair that only 5 of the friends, even those who could easily afford it, do? The poorer of the friends obviously can't buy as much as the rich guy, but the agreement wasn't "as much as" it was "in your budget". THe rich guy knew he'd put more in, 2%of 100000 is greater than 2% of 10. If the rich guy *also* has to make the dishes the others failed to make, it becomes a bit of an issue.

It isn't about the amount (at least not totally), but the failure to meet obligations and agreements combined with the reliance on others to cover you both fiscally and physically. The major-no singular threat NATO was created to defend directly affects 26 of the members, yet only 4 feel it necessary to defend at a mere 2% level.

lpbdc

Yes. Germany has committed to spending 2% of GDP on defense, and they're below their target.

[https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/)

gaxxzz

I think whether they should or shouldn't is the wrong question. In the case of Germany the Bundeswehr is hollowed out and my suspicion is that it's not truly operational for any sustained period. You've got to fix that by spending money. However, that won't solve much if you don't change the perception of military service within Germany and give it a purpose that is currently lacking.

[deleted]

What he's saying, in other words, is that he's happy to be a free rider and take advantage of us.  That's how he sees NATO: we pay for his benefits and keep him from having to serve his country.  And he doesn't see or doesn't care about how this makes him a complete piece of shit.

Yes they absolutely should be spending more because Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe and doesn't have an army to speak of.  They pretended like they were going to when Russia invaded Ukraine, but they've backed off and I personally suspect they'll end up reneging on some high profile defense commitments.

A lot is made of them atoning for the Holocaust and enshrining that in national memory.  What isn't discussed enough is what they owe to the former Soviet republics to their east that went through decades of occupation and degradation because *lebensraum*.  Maybe step up and take a measure of responsibility for protecting the people you did your best to annihilate instead of outsourcing your defense to one of the countries that stopped you.

Grunt08

They should all meet the defense spending target of 2% of their GDP. Europe needs to start taking their own defense seriously and not over rely on the US now that we’re seeing the world become more dangerous again.

I would support the US asking for reparations out of any country that didn’t meet their obligations once these conflicts are over.

maceman10006

They should be required to meet the mandatory minimums.

MarcusAurelius0

Yes, I do want that. I can't have nice things, like free healthcare and education, because I'm paying for your military. I want nice things too. What good is an military ally who doesn't have a military? That's not an ally, it's a liability. 

Then our "allies" have the gall to mock us for not having free healthcare. It's infuriating. The fucking sanctimonious, smug cheek of it. 

Most Americans are pretty isolationist. We don't want our government involved in other counties business but what the American people want has absolutely nothing to do with what the American government does.

naspitekka

We need to hold deadbeat countries accountable. The US shouldn't be funding the defense of wealthy European nations.

[Only 35% of NATO Countries Meet the Group's Defense Spending Target](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2024-02-12/only-35-of-nato-countries-meet-the-groups-defense-spending-target)

Here's a list of NATO Countries not pulling their weight:

Albania  
Belgium  
Bulgaria  
Canada  
Croatia  
Czech Republic  
Denmark  
France  
Iceland  
Italy  
Luxembourg  
Montenegro  
Netherlands  
North Macedonia  
Norway  
Portugal  
Slovenia  
Spain  
Sweden  
Turkey

Honorable mention goes to Germany which met its target this year for the first time since the early 1990s.

[Germany hits 2% NATO spending target for first time since end of Cold War](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-hits-2-nato-target-first-time-since-1992-reports-dpa-2024-02-14/#:~:text=BERLIN%2C%20Feb%2014%20(Reuters),invasion%20of%20Ukraine%20in%202022)

\[Edited for accuracy. Apologies to Greece.\]

justdisa

Well, there's a number of things to discuss here.

- The US has the most inefficient and expensive healthcare system in the developed world. There is no shortage of money spent on healthcare here, we spend more than anyone else in the world - we just don't get results for it.

 - The US spent 16.6% of GDP on healthcare in 2022. Germany spent 12.7% and was 2nd worst in the OECD. The 3.9% of GDP gap there in waste and inefficiency in our healthcare system **costs us more than our entire military budget does**. You could double the military budget if our healthcare system was "only" as efficient as in Germany, and *still* have money left over. The OECD average for 2022 was 9.2%.

- 2/3rds of NATO members are expected to meet the 2% target in 2024, and spending has been steadily increasing to be closer to the target in virtually every country that isn't there yet. NATO Europe/Canada spending has overall increased in real terms (which is to say - *after* factoring inflation) every year since 2015. (the 2% target was agreed upon in 2014, as a goal to start meeting by 2024).

- A number of members are currently undertaking significant spending in support of other things that are not *direct* national defense spending, but most would consider as improving the security of NATO - often more than that same money being spent on their own military would be likely to.

 - Most obviously, transitioning away from depending on Russia for energy (or anything else), and funding/arming Ukraine. I'm mostly willing to consider those costs in the short term as being akin to domestic military spending - especially if they're building up production capacity as well. A newly produced shell being sent to Ukraine is of significantly more utility right now than storing it in a bunker in Germany, but only 1 counts as "NATO" spending.

 - A secondary note is that IIRC - NATO rules don't count spending until it's actually paid, which is different from budgeting for it. Signing a contract for a bunch of F-35's and setting aside the billions to pay for them in the budget is money a country might consider "spent" from this year's budget, but most of that won't actually go to Lockheed Martin for a couple years when they start delivering the planes - only then is it going to count for those NATO stats. So recent increases in European spending for big equipment purchases are things that won't show up fully in the stats for another year or two.

----

None of this excuses the last 20-30 years of German (and to a lesser extent, some other countries) strategic policy as being disastrous, to be clear. Nor that I am happy that it's taken this long to get serious about this - but I do think that they've *slowly* moved in the right direction even before 2022, and largely are moving quicker now.

SkiingAway

I think they should meet the bare minimum spending requirements set by NATO, which they dont. So yes, they absolutely need to spend more.

Edit: Obviously it isnt, but if that's how the vast majority of Germans view the US-Germany military relationship then they could at least cut out the middle man and send their military funding to the US instead of maintaining their degraded clusterfuck of a military.

Affectionate-Lab2557

They should meet their obligations. And its shit like that that makes me not want to support NATO.

That and the fact that NATO has run its course and is no longer needed to counter USSR aggression.

Hence why we should fully withdraw from Europe/NATO.


The moment we realize the Europeans aren't allies, the better off we'll be.

epicjorjorsnake

The US actually spends [around the same per capita on social welfare as Germany](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_social_welfare_spending). The problem isn’t that Germany spends much more on its population, it’s that the US just gets much less for what it spends. If the US adopted a German style public healthcare system, we would actually save an amount of GDP 2-3x larger than the military’s budget.

I think Germany should spend more on its defense, but that’s not because they spend too much on social welfare. Similarly, the US delivers less social welfare but it’s not because we spend too much on our military. Our expensive health care system is a feature not a bug—If you let lobbyists write and veto legislation for the industry, you’re going to get a system to designed to make money.

NomadLexicon

Yes. 

BUT. This is not something we should be threatening to pull out of NATO over. The current right wing platform that wants to pull us towards isolationism is madness. Diplomacy and prevention are very, very effective at preserving the relative peace we're experiencing. 

Should Europe be doing more? Yeah, sure. Should the US walk away from them over it? Absolutely not.

TheBimpo

I think we should go full Iron Bank: if you don’t meet your defense spending commitments, we fund a coup and install a government who will.

MisterHamburgers

Germany reduces university costs by telling 13 year olds they're not going to be university material and they should go to a technical high school. If he's working in a factory he didn't go to a Gymnasium. People in the US might get a non-university apprenticeship through a trade union or something similar.

eyetracker

sheet worthless crawl pot rock wrong aloof payment bored start

 *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

PirateSanta_1

Yes, and the US should get out of this NATO bullshit, we spend more than all the countries combined and it’s not even close. We don’t need NATO, the US already has a stronger military than the next 20 countries combined. We don’t need them and whatever influence nato gives us over europe is not worth the money we spend

MikeV96

As long as they meet the NATO spending standards.

G00dSh0tJans0n

Countries in Europe soak the US taxpayer for defense, freeing up money for socialized healthcare and other programs. Then they call the US uncivilized because we can't afford a socialized medical system.

JeanLucPicard1981

Yes, but I think it’s a misunderstood issue. 

It’s not like the US could significantly curtail defense spending if Germany goes from 1 point something on defense to 2%.

Mr_Kittlesworth

The US spends more on social safety nets than it does on defense by a lot. Most countries do. That's not why we don't have as of nice benefits. Yes, they should spend more on their militaries because being as over reliant on a foreign power as they currently are is insane.

czarczm

I'm inherently nervous about arming Germany

JerichoMassey

That German is uninformed when he thinks that Germany has the subsidized education, more vacation days and universal healthcare you mention "because Germany doesn't spend so much on defense".      
     
We're talking about 1.26% of GDP saved from reduced military spending compared to a double-digit share of GDP spent on social benefits paid for by much higher taxes.      
     
Source for my numbers:    
- Germany extracts the equivalent of **37.5% of GDP** through their various taxes, and **the US 27.1%**. That's a 10.4% higher tax burden. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio                
     
- Germany spends **1.57% of GDP** on its military, and **the U.S 2.83% of its GDP**  according to p. 8 of this official NATO document: https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2023/7/pdf/230707-def-exp-2023-en.pdf )
     
Does that German really think that if Germany would spend 1.26% more of its GDP on military, that would stop them having the various social security benefits you mentioned? Germany can afford these social programs because they tax their citizens and corporations much higher tax rates, as most other European countries. Spending a percentage point more on military will not suddenly make these social benefits disappear (unless they'd also lower taxation to US levels, of course).

olddoc

Germany doesn’t have universal healthcare. At least, not in the way Americans think of universal healthcare. Everyone is covered, but it’s via private insurance above a certain threshold, and via government funded insurance below it. Conceptually, it’s actually more similar to the American system than to the British or Canadian systems.

AceBongwaterJohnson

Germany should become less economically dependent on Russia

DaMarcusGotJuice

Yes. The last decade should be an object lesson in why they should be prepared to fend for themselves.

spect0rjohn

I'll be honest I'd be happy with ither nations helped foot the bill so the US can cut its defense spending for once.

10leej

He should probably know that more and more people are calling for a reduction in spending here in the US. It takes time to build up your military but when the US decides they are done we get out very quickly. If people here decide we are done it would pretty much peace we are out leaving a bunch of countries scrambling to play catch up leaving them vulnerable.

That doesn't seem like a position I would want to be in.

Dull-Geologist-8204

I have heard similar from European friends— why should they pay for defense when the USA will?

bananapanqueques

I have no idea but 35 vacation days a year is surreal

airbear13

Enough with this absolute nonsense inference that we either have to choose between robust national defense and robust labor laws. Our national defense expenditures is 3.5% of GDP. That isn't a figure that  paralyzes US domestic policy initiatives.

Yes_2_Anal

Germany is pushing to meet the NATO standard. The issue is that the Bundeswehr's bureaucracy is so overbloated that it takes forever to do literally anything. This is why you hear of fresh vehicles like the Puma failing during exercises and why it cost millions of Euros and ten years for the German Navy to restore an 81 meter long sailing ship.

America pays a higher percentage of its GDP (17% vs 13%) to healthcare than Germany does, the problem is that there is so much corruption in healthcare that the price is bloated. This problem affects education as well.

samurai_for_hire

It's a hell of a lot more complicated than your acquaintance lets on. Some countries, including Germany, have Constitutional complications to just arbitrarily spending X% of GDP on defense.

Secondly, spending on defense equipment/maintenance isn't the same as spending on personnel. The picture is far, far, more complex and nuanced than just declaring 2% and going home.

\[Source: have worked with NATO militaries for some time\]

fromwayuphigh

We should let Europe take care of themselves. Immediate and total withdrawal.

OldRoots

They can if they want, but it's not something I'm overly concerned about. Allowing us to have a shit ton on bases and staging areas more than makes up for it.

dangleicious13

It's easy for people to say yes to this question I suppose; but I am not so intimately familiar with other country's defense budgets and the relevance to the US's own spending that I have a really informed opinion. There's a lot of words that get thrown around on op-ed pages about this but it's hard for me to get that worked up about whether Germany is spending 1.5% or 2% or 3% (etc) of its GDP on defense.

pirawalla22

His reasoning is not correct though. Germany can afford it's social programs because of higher taxes, not savings on defence. The US could also easily afford a similar healthcare / social care programme to Germany, it just chooses not to.

Likewise, the working week is different due to European Union protections on workers rights and a different attitude to work/life than in the US. This stuff long pre-exists the drop in defence spending in Europe. It is simply political and public will that doesn't support such policies in the US.

r0w33

Yes. 

They are obligated by the NATO treaties to spend a minimum of 2% of GDP on military. Most members are not doing so. Any member that does not do so after a reasonable amount of time to correct the failure should be ejected.

cdb03b

Yes. American is more than happy and willing to cover the ocean. Let them do ground forces 

Hatred_shapped

Other_Chemistry_3325

Yes. They want to bitch about US policing the world but then ask why we aren't helping out more. NATO is just the US and it's 31 bitches. Now, some of them bitches are better than others.

BigMaraJeff2

Absolutely, and even more so considering their proximity to nations such as Russia. That's one of the biggest problems with European nations. They're in NATO so that they can shake America's big stick at threats but a lot of them are not paying their fair share into the alliance and they're not really prepared on their end either. If an enemy nation is going to attack a NATO nation they're not going to care about how many American bases there are.

GreatSoulLord

Why don’t you ask if we should pay more for our universities? That’s what most states used to do. A lot of these comparisons are based on false premises, because macro-economically, we claim to care about “finding the money” in some cases but not at all in others.

ubiquitous-joe

I am sorry but this story sounds like bullshit.

mrmgl

They absolutely should, and as a dual citizen of the US and Italy I try to do my part in pushing this.

Even under the best case scenario where the US stays or even increases its European presence, the changed security environment following Feb 2022 makes stronger defense a very good idea. The fact that domestic politics here might lead to a seriously reduced US commitment in Europe makes it downright urgent. The bad news is that there is a *huge* amount of work to be done here (German procurement is just broken, for example), but the good news is that there does actually seem to be a sense of urgency and seriousness about this in much of the European political class.

Also, as others in the thread have pointed out, I also think "welfare vs. defense" is a bad framing - the specifics of how a country's welfare state works, how defense procurement works there, etc. all matter a lot. Finland and Sweden for example have quite generous welfare states but also very capable militaries, especially relative to their size. [This RAND report](https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA3236-1.html) is a good overview of how those two are major assets to NATO.

EDIT: typo

philo_fox

If Germany spends 2% of its GDP on the military, they still would be able to afford their social services. [Poland dedicates around the same percentage of its GDP or more to its military as the United States](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44717074); they still can afford social services and subsidized higher education.

Wages he mentioned was due to strong bargaining power German workers have. The USA has the weakest bargaining power for its workers of all high income Western countries; it has nothing to do with our military spending. 

To answer your question, yes, Germany should spend more. I don't care how much as long as it's within the 2% minimum.

They should meet what they agreed to pay.

Past that, I’m deeply jealous of his work life balance and wish we prioritized humans over the next generation super fighter that we clearly don’t need. I say that as a veteran.

doyouevenoperatebrah

_oaeb_

I think that everyone in NATO should be spending at least 2% of their GDP on defense. 

Vachic09

That dude should probably pay attention to the people in the red hats and what they think about helping other countries

BurgerFaces

yes, especially Germany because of how capable they are of doing so. that is to say, if Portugal spent a large amount of their GDP on defense, it might not make a dent in the grand scheme of things, but if Germany and the UK both did, then NATO would be stacked AF. And for what it's worth during certain parts of the cold war that was basically the case (especially the 80s, but also late 50s/early 60s) with the UK and West Germany

Mission-Coyote4457

&gt; Do you think NATO countries like Germany should spend more on defense?

Yes.

&gt; Do you think NATO countries like Germany should spend more on defense, and believe the US should destroy the alliance if that doesn’t happen?

No.

&gt; His reasoning was that Germany doesn't spend much on defense so it has room to spend on benefits for its citizens. 

Then he is grossly ignorant about government finances. Defense spending isn’t even remotely sufficient to pay for these sorts of things through cuts. Spending 1.5% of GDP on defense instead of 3% of GDP on defense isn’t going to pay for college for everyone or healthcare for everyone.

In a lot of respects these sorts of government programs are just cost savings mechanisms anyway. Ex. It’s much cheaper to have single payer universal health insurance than sporadic private party health insurance (not that Germany has a single payer system—they don’t).

Wealthy countries can afford to be inefficient with their spending, but poor ones can’t. They have to focus on cost efficient choices, which often means government services instead of private services.

&gt; According to him why should Germany spend more.

And he’s right. The US is dollars ahead to defend Germany even if Germany contributes nothing to its own defense—and, as such, they are also economically better off to be a free riding leech.

The Germans are incentivized to spend as little as possible on their own defense, and the US is incentivized to defend Europe regardless. That’s just the way the political and economic situation has worked itself out. 

PlayingTheWrongGame

As others have said, yes. They should meet their 2% GDP commitment. It’s one of the very few things Trump got right

Every Nato country should meet there 2% obligations

Comrade_Lomrade

If you're in an alliance and don't contribute the bare-minimum you should be kicked out of that alliance. It's completely unfair to expect others to foot your bills.

Nyhzel

They should meet the 2% minimum requirement.  

That line about how they shouldn't spend more because of all the US bases shows just how much of a parasite some of the NATO countries have become.

UltraShadowArbiter

All NATO members should meet their treaty obligations in full.

No. They all know we do. It's not like we're going to back out

lai4basis

Yes. The EU has abandoned its responsibility to defend itself. I hate DT but he was right about this. 

Iwentforalongwalk

Working in a factory doesn't mean low skill.

Western-Passage-1908

The US can afford to do that as well, even if we don't reduce our bloated military. The problem is that our government is of the wealthy, by the wealthy, and for the wealthy.

And how much Germany spends on defense doesn't affect us. We spend on our military what we spend because defense contractors own our government.

JohnnyRelentless

Yes. 2% is an arbitrary requirement and really with a land war in Eastern Europe ongoing that requires western assistance, Germany could do more being the biggest economy in Europe. That being said about 59% of Germans have a favorable view of the military because national pacifism took hold post-Cold War but in general, Germany can provide a very capable military if they just decided to come to grips with reality.

mittrawx

Well right now it should. All of us should.

jastay3

The government does not pay you for your PTO, the companies still have to do that, it’s just required by law that they do a certain amount because their government actually works for the people and not giga-corporations.

Germany also does not have 800 international military bases to upkeep so that’s gotta give them some extra cash too….

I think countries should be recommended to spend a certain % of their GDP, but it’s in the US’s best interest to expand NATO, so if that’s going to be a breaking point it’s better to not require it. 

I think a lot of this argument stems from people thinking we’d be carrying NATO should a full blown war begin in current world affairs, it will likely be in Europe, and at that point it is in the best interest of European nations to spend more on defense lest they get steamrolled by Russia.

SquashDue502

OP you should have agreed with him then told him how post-War Germany is actually one of America's greatest accomplishments and he should be proud he's able to experience that.

Make him kiss the ring.

Fappy_as_a_Clam

I mean, they kinda outsourced their defense by being a part of NATO. So, a defense budget is pretty pointless.

WildBoy-72

No "should" about it. They *need* to. The post-Cold War honeymoon is well and officially over and the U.S. ability to police the entire globe has vastly deteriorated. If SHTF, the U.S. will be fighting mostly in the air and on the sea; the ground war will be in their back yard and if they can't defend it, it will fall.

PlayingDoomOnAGPS

The idea of NATO was MUTUAL defense and yet many European allies have insisted decided to hide under the IS umbrella and have Americans shoulder the burden of their defense at the cost of its own citizens well being. It’s for that reason that they shouldn’t have anything to say on US foreign policy. 

It’s for that reason I believe the US should push to kick out members of NATO who do not meat their obligations or at the least redistribute out armed forces to nations who do meet their obligations.

Peaky_White_Night

As a politically middle of the road American, I want to see a Europe that does not need the US to deter  or repel a Russian invasion.  However, if such was to occur I am 100% behind defending our allies.

Bahnrokt-AK

Countries who are in NATO who don't meet the 2% requirement shouldn't get help if they get attacked.  It's that simple.  You signed a treaty, now spend the money you PROMISED if you want to benefit from it.

What pisses me off more than anything is the Europeans mocking Americans for their defense spending when America is basically the only deterrent keeping Russia and China from turning most of Europe into a parking lot if they wanted to.

Now, would we reduce military spending if the other NATO countries stepped up and did what they should have been the last decade or so, probably not, there is a ton of corruption there and lots of politicians make lots of money in kickbacks from our defense contractors.

AyAyAyBamba_462

I mean yeah... They agreed to the cost when they signed up right? And if there is clear hardship I think the org can work something out. No one should be left out in the cold, but still.

Germany not paying it's share is like your friend making good money crying about not being able to pay his half of the rent tbh

Morlock19

Yes. Why shouldn't they pull more of their own weight especially when a major war is a few countries over.

brinerbear

The USA military budget is bloated, and it cannot pass a financial audit. NATO countries should not be spending money like the USA military. 

The USA needs to spend taxpayer money much better than it is. 

PS Laws about employee vacation have nothing to do with military spending.

🤣 you think that’s why you can’t have universal healthcare and better labor laws? Damn, they really got you brainwashed. The USA can afford to do all those things, the heads of government just don’t give a shit about their citizens. At least not the middle and poor classes.

yungsausages

pikay93

I say Germany should spend Zero on defense, then we can dictate their policy. Let's start with getting rid of hate speech laws.

maxman14

videogames_

An American friend lived in Germany for three years. Loved the simplicity of healthcare but couldn’t believe his tech salary was half of America and taxed almost 40% so he went back to the U.S.

And are those 60,000 potential new soldiers in the room with us right now? Because last time I checked every Western military suffers from massive recruitment shortfalls, and just keeping the numbers stable would be an improvement.

VigorousElk

Germany struggles to even replace the soldiers leaving the forces due to retirement. I’d like to see where those 60.000 additional soldiers will come from

munich37

Weird situation when Europe is hoping for German conscription.....but if there is one thing we need now. It is Helmuth von Moltke the Elder and German rail timetables.....granted these days everything would be delayed....

DarrensDodgyDenim

Anything thats mandatory well bring out the youth vote in droves.

ManonFire1213

InCloud44

Germany is supposed to have the biggest land army in Europe because it's the most populous country and biggest economy. Hope they'll achieve that one day.

Beyllionaire

sora64444

Will they also be using broom handles painted black?

Real_Boseph_Jiden

I guess with birth rates plummeting in Europe we are going to come to an agreement about a common army. It'll become a necessity.

Saroull

Germany is planning a significant expansion of its military forces, aiming to increase troop numbers by up to 60,000 to meet NATO's new defense goals. This move is part of a broader strategy to bolster NATO's readiness amid rising tensions with Russia.

Germany's Military Expansion and NATO Commitments

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